When studying Bava Batra again, I noticed something else. According to Rashi on page 3b, the second temple stood 420 years while the first temple stood 410 years. This dating system is derived from Seder Olam Rabbah, which was written in the second century. There is a problem: this dating system completely does not line up with outside sources. According to Olam Rabbah, 490 years passed between the destruction of the first and second temples. The Rabbbinical dating system is based on it.
Key anchor points for secular history are large battles, and changes of administration. A large battle that changes the course of an empire is a difficult event to get wrong, since it is so often confirmed by archaeology. Several key dates include:
- The ascension of King Nebuchadnezzar after the battle of Carchemish in 605 BCE.
- The downfall of Babylon after the Persian empire under Cyrus defeated the Babylonians at the battle of Opis at 540 BCE.
- The downfall of the Persian empire to Alexander the Great's forces at the battle of Gaugamela in 331 BCE.
The ancient Greek, Persian, and Babylonian records give multiple, independent attestation to these dates. They were written by independent sources, yet they confirm one another, which makes these dates part of the historical bedrock.
According to the New American Heritage Dictionary, the first Jerusalem Temple was finished in 957 BCE under King Solomon. According to Jeremiah 52 and 2 Kings 25, the temple was destroyed on the fifth month of the nineteenth year of King Nebuchadnezzar. This puts the destruction of the first temple to 586 BCE. The first temple stood for 371 years, not 410 years, as Rashi said. It also shows that 656 years passed between the destruction of the two temples, not 490 years as Olam Rabbah said.
The second temple was built under Zerubbabel. The event is recorded in the book of Ezra. Thanks to the fact that the book references outside rulers, it can be mapped on a timeline established by outside sources. In Ezra 6, Darius, ruler of Persia, made a decree to Tattenai, that he help the people of Judah rebuild the second temple. "They finished their building by decree of the God of Israel and by decree of Cyrus and Darius and Artaxerxes king of Persia; and this house was finished on the third day of the month of Adar, in the sixth year of the reign of Darius the king." (Ezra 6:14-15).
Since Darius came to power in 522 BCE, it means that the second temple was completely finished and dedicated by Ezra on 516 BCE, not 350 BCE, as the Rabbinical dating system states. Even if it was Darius the II, the sixth year of his reign was 418, not 350.
But still, the king Darius mentioned in this passage was Darius I, not Darius II. The key to proving it is Zerubbabel. He came back under the reign of king Cyrus. According to Ezra 3, in the second year after their return, Zerubbabel re-institutes the priesthood. In Ezra 4, Cyrus is still in power, and Zerubbabel is mentioned. Then, Darius becomes king, with Ahasuerus or Artaxerxes as a sub-regent. Zerubbabel is already an adult when Cyrus died in 530 BCE. Darius II did not come to power until 423 BCE, over 100 years later.
Another key piece of evidence for the sixth-century date is that archaeology gives support to it. Darius ordered the governor Tattenai to lay off his opposition to Ezra and his efforts to build the temple. According to Encyclopedia Britannica: "Tattenai is one of the few Persian officials mentioned in the Hebrew Bible for whom there is independent attestation; he is mentioned in a cuneiform tablet dated 502 BCE."
In order to give your argument any sort of teeth, you must walk us through, specifically, the archeological documents. You must show how these independent sources -- which of course don't give exact dates based on our calendars -- point to specific events happening at specific years. You mention the year Darius came to power, etc., etc., without telling us exactly how these year-numbers were arrived at. The fact that they are from mulitple sources is not compelling, when all those sources do not use OUR calender-years.
ReplyDeleteBut, the truth is, this discussion is entirely pointless. If the Talmud makes a historical error, does not in any way imply that we should ignore its halachic and philosophical conclusions?
Oh, and what about Jesus who said that he'd come back soon? Or what about his prediction that there won't be any surviving structures of the Temple (while the rabbis predicted that the western wall will never be destroyed)?
You base your entire life on the testimony of one deranged Paul. He wrote all your books, and he spread your religion zealously. Grow up and follow the truth.
I have to concur with much of what was said above. Drew, you haven't got a leg to stand on. You continue to ignore my refutations to your position on Isaiah 53, yet you go on and on about the Talmud. The schism between Judaism and Christianity does not need to be addressed using the Talmud. One simply can go to the text of the Tanach and understand that the New Testament is completely theologically inconsistent with the Tanach, thus invalidating its theological claims. From the "virgin" birth to the blood sacrifice of a human being, the New Testament's depiction of Jesus fulfills NOTHING in terms of the Messianic prophesies outlined in the Tanach. It's all been mistranslated, misapplied, or just flat out made up. But you refuse to address these issues. I think that says a little something about your position... Shalom
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